Egypt, Jordan Reject Trump Plan to “Clean Out” Gaza; Palestinians Return to N. Gaza in Historic Day

AMY GOODMAN: Tens of thousands of displaced Palestinians are returning home to the north of Gaza for the first time since they were forced to flee their homes at the start of Israel’s war on Gaza over a year ago. A river of people that stretched for miles walked north along Gaza’s coastal road Monday carrying what’s left of their possessions. Most Palestinians will be returning to find their homes reduced to rubble. The U.N. estimates 92% of homes in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged over the last 16 months.

President Trump is facing accusations of supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza after saying he wants to, quote, “clean out the whole thing.” Trump called for Egypt and Jordan to take in Palestinians living in Gaza, while speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One Saturday. He told the reporters he had spoken to King Abdullah of Jordan.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I said to him, “I’d love you to take on more,” because I’m looking at the whole Gaza Strip right now, and it’s a mess. It’s a real mess.

REPORTER: So, you’d like Jordan to house people from Gaza?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: To take people. I’d like Egypt to take people. I’m meeting with — I’m talking to General el-Sisi tomorrow sometime, I believe. And I’d like Egypt to take people, and I’d like Jordan to take people. I could — I mean, you’re talking about probably a million and a half people. And we just clean out that whole thing. It’s — you know, it’s — over the centuries, that’s — that’s many, many conflicts, that site. And I don’t know. It’s — something has to happen. But it’s literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything’s demolished.

AMY GOODMAN: Egypt and Jordan have both rejected Trump’s suggestion and emphasized a two-state solution ensuring Palestinian statehood is the only way forward. Hamas and displaced Palestinians in Gaza also rejected the idea of being forced out of Gaza. This is Magdy Seidam, a Palestinian waiting to return to northern Gaza.

MAGDY SEIDAM: [translated] The call by the U.S. president is completely rejected. Completely. Completely. If he thinks he will forcibly displace the Palestinian people, this is impossible. Impossible. The Palestinian people firmly believe that this land is theirs, this soil is their soil. No matter how much Israel tries to destroy, break and to show people that it had won, in reality, it did not win. It destroyed and ruined things and showed the people that it is a failed state.

AMY GOODMAN: Trump’s suggestion that more than a million Palestinians should be moved out of Gaza to neighboring Arab states weren’t his first controversial comments on Gaza since returning to office. Shortly after his inauguration last week, Trump said he is, quote, “not confident” the ceasefire will remain in place. He said Gaza appeared to be a, quote, “massive demolition site” that should be rebuilt.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You know, Gaza is interesting. It’s a phenomenal location: on the sea, the best weather. You know, everything is good. It’s like — some beautiful things could be done with it. But it’s very interesting. But some fantastic things could be done with Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: For more on reactions to President Trump’s calls to, quote, “clean out” Gaza, we’re joined by the Emmy- and Polk Award-winning Egyptian American journalist Sharif Abdel Kouddous. He works with Drop Site News and spent years reporting from Egypt, as well as from Gaza and the West Bank. He was a correspondent on Al Jazeera’s Fault Lines documentary The Night Won’t End: Biden’s War on Gaza and did a Polk Award-winning documentary on the killing of the Palestinian American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh.

Sharif, welcome back to Democracy Now! It’s great to have you here. So, these comments of Trump, the last ones echo his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who had said in the last year that Gaza is great beachfront property, talking about it as a kind of real estate deal. Trump, most recently, on Air Force One on Saturday night saying that more than a million Palestinians should be moved to Egypt and Jordan, that he spoke to the Jordanian king. Meanwhile, Jordan and Egypt — talk about their responses and, most importantly, the response of Palestinians.

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, both Jordan and Egypt have rejected this, and they’ve done so since the beginning of this genocidal assault. You know, these comments were welcomed by the far-right ministers Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, who said, you know, this would be the voluntary emigration that they’ve been dreaming about, for Palestinians to be forcibly displaced outside of Gaza and for them to rebuild Jewish settlements in Gaza.

I think what’s — yes, we have to acknowledge what’s happening today, which are these incredible scenes of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of Palestinians, who have withstood an unprecedented genocidal assault, returning back to the north. Now, we spoke at Drop Site to Mustafa Barghouti just a few days ago, and he said the return of forcibly displaced Palestinians to the north will be the ultimate defeat of Israeli plans, because it means that the goal of ethnic cleansing did not materialize.

Let’s remember what happened. If we go back to October 7th, 2023, when Benjamin Netanyahu took to the airwaves and declared war on Gaza, he said, “Leave now,” to the, you know, 2.3 million Palestinians who are living in Gaza. Just a few days later, we saw this shocking directive for all 1.1 million Palestinians who are north of Wadi Gaza to flee to the south. And we saw this unbelievable, unprecedented aerial bombing campaign and many people forcibly displaced to the south, many of them to Rafah in the beginning. And let’s not forget that at the time, Western governments, including the United States government under the Biden administration, were trying to persuade Egypt to take in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, displace them in northern Sinai, offering economic incentives. There’s reporting that shows that this was taking place. Egypt rejected it at the time, but, more importantly, Palestinians rejected this.

And then we saw them build what’s called the Netzarim Corridor, which bisected Gaza. This was a six- or seven-kilometer-wide strip of land. They completely depopulated, forcibly displaced, ethnically cleansed that area, destroyed almost all of the buildings there, set up military bases. And this was, essentially — reporting shows in Haaretz this was called a “kill zone.” Any man, woman or child, unarmed, would enter — it’s unclear where the border was of the Netzarim Corridor — they would be shot and killed. And this was essentially the place that divided Gaza. Once you crossed there, you could not go back. We saw in October also a concentrated extermination campaign in the very north of Gaza, in Jabaliya, Jabaliya refugee camp, in Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahia, where they completely did not allow any aid in and then very systematically started attacking these towns and cities and forcing people out on, essentially, what were death marches to the south, across the Netzarim Corridor, and back.

And, you know, despite all of this, people withstood. They remained on their land. And now we’re seeing these incredible scenes of people returning home. And to think that, you know, Trump can just say they should move to Egypt or Jordan, I think, you know, is preposterous. And we’re seeing right now that this is kind of an ultimate defeat of the plans of ethnic cleansing, that have dated back to the 1950s for Israel.

AMY GOODMAN: So, I wanted to go to that quote of Jared Kushner, made months ago — that’s Trump’s son-in-law and former adviser — weighing in on Israel’s war on Gaza, saying Israel should move Palestinians out of the besieged territory, which he said contains very valuable waterfront property, making the remarks during an event hosted by the Middle East Initiative at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government.

JARED KUSHNER: And Gaza’s waterfront property, it could be very valuable to — if people would focus on kind of building up, you know, livelihoods. You think about all the money that’s gone into this tunnel network and into all the munitions, if that would have gone into education or innovation, what could have been done. And so, I think that it’s a little bit of an unfortunate situation there, but I think, from Israel’s perspective, I would do my best to move the people out and then clean it up. But I don’t think that Israel has stated that they don’t want the people to move back there afterwards.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s a pretty amazing comment, invaluable beachfront property. Earlier today, I was watching the Palestinian attorney Diana Buttu on Al Jazeera. When asked about what Trump said, you know, I think all agree it does look like a demolition zone. There’s no question about it. How can Palestinians live there? And she said, “OK, if there’s that question, rather than moving them to neighboring Arab states like Egypt and Jordan, what about moving them home?” She said 80% of the people of Gaza come from places in Israel.

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Yeah, I mean, this is why Gaza has long been a site of resistance in historic Palestine and long been a place that Israel wants to ethnically cleanse, because it is the largest concentration of Palestinian refugees in historic Palestine. So, it has always been a restive place. These people, who 80% of them are their descendants, want to return to their homes, which are mostly the towns and villages around Gaza. And like you said, this is now — they are returning, in these really incredible scenes that we’re seeing right now — 

AMY GOODMAN: I mean, this is a flood of humanity.

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: People hugging, who haven’t seen — they’ve been separated from their family members, from mothers and fathers, separated from their children, for 15 months, and they’re reuniting for the first time. They never thought they would see each other again.

But they are returning to, as you said, a devastated landscape. Nearly the entire — every house has been destroyed or badly damaged. The government authorities are telling people to bring their tents with them. There are not even enough tents for people to set up on the rubble of their homes. And as we’ve been seeing in other parts, as well, while Israel has violated the ceasefire nearly every single day, killing Palestinians, especially in Rafah, the death count, the official death count, has been also shooting up since the 19th, when the ceasefire went into effect, because dozens of bodies are being recovered from under the rubble. And so, you know, I’m afraid we’re going to see a lot of this as people search for their loved ones as they’re returning to this devastated landscape. But they are determined not to leave their land, and many of them will set up tents on the rubble of their homes.

AMY GOODMAN: And then we go to the West Bank and what’s happening there. We just spoke to Mariam Barghouti. You wrote a piece with her for Drop Site. If you can talk about intensification of violence against Palestinians there?

SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, essentially, what we saw soon after the ceasefire went into effect, a war on the West Bank, initially dubbed the Iron Wall. All of these things had been taking place already — attacks on Jenin, closures of checkpoints and so forth — but a massive escalation of this, to the likes of which we haven’t seen since 2002, an invasion of Jenin. Right now they are demolishing the refugee camp, not just with bulldozers as we’ve seen in the past. They are actually detonating, the way they have done in Gaza, parts of this. Two thousand families have already been displaced. Across the West Bank, there was usually around 700 military checkpoints. Now there’s close to a thousand. They’ve all closed down. Cities have been closed off from each other. People can’t leave their towns and villages to go to school, to go to work. They’re separated from each other. And so, this is — they’re laying siege to the West Bank. And a lot of what we show in the reporting and what has been said was that this was a trade-off that Netanyahu — trying to convince his ministers, like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, to sign onto the Gaza ceasefire plan, that they would launch this kind of unprecedented military assault on the West Bank.