“Palestine Is Really the Center of the World”: Angela Davis on Gaza, Black-Jewish Solidarity & Trump

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman in Baltimore, with Nermeen Shaikh in New York.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Jewish Voice for Peace is holding a major conference in Baltimore this weekend. The renowned activist, author and scholar Angela Davis spoke on Thursday night and joins us now in Baltimore. Dr. Davis is the author of many books, including Freedom Is a Constant Struggle: Ferguson, Palestine, and the Foundations of a Movement. Her other books include Abolition. Feminism. Now., Are Prisons Obsolete? and Women, Race and Class. Professor Angela Davis is a distinguished professor emerita at the University of California, Santa Cruz. Amy?

AMY GOODMAN: So, we’re here in Baltimore. Thousands of members of Jewish Voice for Peace have gathered for a weekend of workshops and plenary sessions. Dr. Angela Davis gave a keynote last night, and she’s joining us right now.

Angela, if you could start off by talking about the history of Black-Jewish-Palestinian solidarity and why you felt it was important to address JVP, Jewish Voice for Peace?

ANGELA DAVIS: Well, first of all, thank you so much, Amy, for inviting me to be on the program, and thank you for your ongoing coverage. I don’t know what we would do without Democracy Now!

Yeah, Jewish Voice for Peace has been a powerful force, well, since its founding, but especially in this period when we’re trying to figure out how we negotiate ourselves through this horrendous combination of genocide in Gaza, and on the Palestinian people more broadly, and a McCarthyist-type repression that is unfolding here in the United States, especially on the university and college campuses around the country. I think it’s very important for people to recognize that as Israel represents itself as the purveyor of genocide and the forces of unfreedom, of course, assisted by the United States, it is important to have a powerful force of progressive and radical Jewish people who are working in the tradition of Jewish activists who stand up not only or not primarily for their own people, but who have taught us about international solidarity and what it means to engage in struggles for freedom all over the world.

So, I’m really excited to be here. I should say that when I spoke last night, it was on a program with Rashida Tlaib, who’s absolutely remarkable, and Omar Barghouti, who’s a founding member of BDS, Boycott, Divestment and Sanction. He was not able to attend. He was invited, but, of course, neither the U.S. nor the state of Israel wants to see him join hands with those of us here who are fighting for an end to the genocide.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Professor Davis, you’ve said that “Palestine is a moral litmus test for the world,” quoting, of course, the late poet June Jordan.

ANGELA DAVIS: Yes, June Jordan.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: If you could explain why you see it as a litmus test and, to the extent that it is one, whether what’s happened in the last year and a half demonstrates that, in fact, the world has failed that litmus test?

ANGELA DAVIS: Well, yeah. Thank you so much for bringing up the statement that June Jordan made about the moral litmus test that is Palestine. June Jordan is someone who fought for Palestinian solidarity at a time when the majority of people weren’t listening to her. I think about her all the time, and I find myself always wishing that she could witness the surge in support of Palestine all over the country, especially on college campuses, but in trade unions and in progressive movements everywhere. So, thank you very much for evoking June, which we should all be doing during this period.

Now, Palestine is really the center of the world. And as someone who’s been active in the Palestine solidarity struggle for the vast majority of my life, I can say that even as we experience the unimaginable grief of witnessing an ongoing genocide, a genocide that is available in terms of being able to witness the consequences all over the world, in one sense, I want to say that this is the movement we’ve been struggling for for decades and decades. Rashid Khalidi has this amazing book entitled The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine. It has been, you know, 100 years. And Zionism is such a powerful force, supported, of course, by the U.S. government and its position as the leading capitalist nation-state in the world. And, you know, Zionism has had such a power, that many of us have been disappointed repeatedly, over and over again. How is it that people who stood up for South Africa cannot recognize that the same kind of apartheid is at work in the occupation, the Israeli occupation of Palestine? But, of course, over the last period, we’ve seen students all over the country — as a matter of fact, all over the world. I visited a number of universities abroad, and there are — I think on virtually every campus in the world, there are movements to expand solidarity with Palestine.

So we find ourselves in a very difficult moment, a moment of grief, a moment of witnessing the apartheid and the genocide unfolding in a way that we had never imagined before. But at the same time, we recognize that Palestine has never given up. Palestine will never give up. And this is precisely why, even in the worst possible material predicament, with the Israeli bombs having destroyed virtually the entirety of Gaza, we see the Palestinian people who are refusing to give up, who will not give up on their people, who will not give up on their history, who will not give up on their culture, and who will not give up on their ability to express solidarity with other people who are struggling all over the world.

And so, it’s a moment that is a bit difficult to digest, but I do think that even as we cry, even as we express solidarity amidst the suffering, we should recognize that this is a moment we’ve been waiting for, where people all over the world are recognizing Palestine as a litmus test and are recognizing that the people in the Sudan will — in Sudan will not be successful, people in Congo will not be successful, people in IT will not be successful, if they do not follow the leadership of the Palestinian people, who absolutely refuse to capitulate and genuflect to Zionism and to global capitalism and to racism.

AMY GOODMAN: Angela Davis, we’re talking to you on this week of the first 100 days of President Trump’s second term. Multiple polls show that his polling is lower on issues from the economy to immigration than any modern president and than any president in the last 80 years. The New York Times ran a front-page headline, “There Have Never Been 100 Days Like This.” And at the same time, you have judge after judge ruling against President Trump. And this especially goes to the issue of those who stood up for Palestinian rights who have been detained, who have been jailed, like the Columbia University student and Palestinian activist Mohsen Mahdawi, who a judge has just released in Vermont and will be graduating from Columbia, coming to New York.

The judge’s writing on this said, “The court also considers the extraordinary setting of this case and others like it. Legal residents — not charged with crimes or misconduct — are being arrested and threatened with deportation for stating their views on the political issues of the day.” The judge went on, “Our nation has seen times like this before, especially during the Red Scare and Palmer Raids of 1919-1920 that led to the deportation of hundreds of people suspected of anarchist or communist views.”

I’m wondering: Are you seeing a sea change at this point? The cratering of the economy, the contracting of the economy, the cratering of the polls, judge after judge ruling against Trump, and hundreds of thousands of people in the streets — what does this say to you, as you’ve been such a longtime activist, where we all stand now?

ANGELA DAVIS: Well, thank you for that question, Amy. I think it is important to acknowledge that Trump was not elected by a majority of the people in this country. As a matter of fact, more people did not vote for Trump as voted — than voted for him. So, we’re not seeing a president who has the power of the people behind him, quite the contrary. And I think that as those of us who are standing for justice and for freedom and for a better future, it’s essential to recognize that we are actually in the majority, that we are on the right side of history, that we should follow the example of the Palestinian people and not give up, not succumb to the assumption that this person was elected, and therefore he and his people get to dictate the direction of history.

Of course, an enormous amount of damage is being done. And we know from the last administration the kind of damage that was done to the court system in this country, for which it will require untold numbers of years to recuperate from that. At the same time, I think that those of us who have been around for a long time recognize that what is happening at this moment does not dictate what is going to be happening tomorrow. Of course, the last 100 days appear to have been an eternity, and I don’t think anyone has ever experienced this kind of horrendous damage being done by a person holding the executive power within such a short period of time. But at the same time, I think we should stand back and look at history and recognize that tomorrow will not be a reflection of what is happening in this moment, that like the Palestinian people and the 100-year war against the Palestinian people, we have to hold strong. We have to engage in resistance, large acts of resistance and small acts of resistance. I am persuaded that in the end, we are the ones who are going to be able to determine the direction of history.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Thank you so much, Dr. Angela Davis.

ANGELA DAVIS: And you were talking about — you were asking me to —

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We’re going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much, Professor Davis, for joining us —

ANGELA DAVIS: All right.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: — in Baltimore.